{"id":34656,"date":"2019-01-10T12:02:27","date_gmt":"2019-01-10T12:02:27","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.skwigly.co.uk\/?p=34656"},"modified":"2021-09-07T14:57:29","modified_gmt":"2021-09-07T14:57:29","slug":"jonathan-hodgson-roughhouse-interview","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.skwigly.co.uk\/jonathan-hodgson-roughhouse-interview\/","title":{"rendered":"Interview: Jonathan Hodgson on his latest film &#8216;Roughhouse&#8217; &#8211; a raw portrayal of bullying"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>For someone who doesn\u2019t consider himself a good animator, Jonathan Hodgson has made remarkably good as one. Raised in Birmingham, he began to show interest in the medium at the same time as Britain\u2019s institutions did. He enrolled on fledgling animation courses at Liverpool Polytechnic and the Royal College of Art, developing a rugged caricatural style that married pin-sharp social observation with flights into abstraction.<\/p>\n<p>The success of his student films in the early 1980s set Hodgson on a three-pronged career path. While continuing to work on personal projects like the Bafta-winning Bukowski adaptation <a href=\"https:\/\/vimeo.com\/19909066\"><em>The Man with the Beautiful Eyes<\/em><\/a> (2000), he launched sidelines in high-profile commercials and commissioned films. Recent years have seen him produce a run of documentary shorts \u2013\u00a0mostly centering on human rights abuses\u00a0\u2013 for the likes of <a href=\"https:\/\/vimeo.com\/49304204\">Amnesty International<\/a> and <a href=\"https:\/\/vimeo.com\/79552429\"><em>The Observer<\/em><\/a>.<\/p>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Roughhouse Trailer\" src=\"https:\/\/player.vimeo.com\/video\/272093835?dnt=1&amp;app_id=122963\" width=\"500\" height=\"281\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"autoplay; fullscreen; picture-in-picture; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p><em>Roughhouse <\/em>puts an end to that run. A narrative film about the social dynamics in a student house, it\u2019s the rawest portrayal of bullying in animation since JJ Villard\u2019s <em>Son of Satan<\/em> (2003), and Hodgson\u2019s most intimate work in over a decade. After experimenting with mixed media in his commissioned films, Hodgson returns to the hand-drawn aesthetic that made his name;\u00a0but that isn\u2019t <em>Roughhouse<\/em>\u2019s only familiar ingredient. For the setting is Liverpool Polytechnic in the 1980s, and the punky protagonists look not unlike <a href=\"https:\/\/vimeo.com\/22314599\">Hodgson in photos from that era<\/a>\u2026<\/p>\n<p>A few days before the film picked up a Bafta nomination, I met up with Hodgson for a pint and a chat.<\/p>\n<p><strong>On the face of it, <em>Roughhouse <\/em>is unlike your other work in that it\u2019s a straightforward fictional narrative. But how fictional is it, really?<\/strong><\/p>\n<blockquote><p>It\u2019s something that happened. I changed some of the events, but I did live in a flat in Liverpool. We were three friends from Birmingham, and one of us got into a situation where he couldn\u2019t pay the rent. Me and the other guys in the flat, some of whom were northerners, were pretty pissed off with him, because we were having to pay his share of the rent and he wasn\u2019t doing anything in return. There was playful violence, but also psychological\u2026 when we became really unfriendly to him, that was the thing he found hardest to handle. The problem could have been sorted out in a more mature way.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><strong>Is he \u201cMartin\u201d, to whom the film is dedicated?<\/strong><\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Yeah. I\u2019m not really in touch with him. I don\u2019t think he knows I\u2019ve made the film. I do feel a bit awkward about that. I felt like I should have asked him, but if he\u2019d said no, I wouldn\u2019t have been able to make it.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><strong>You started developing the idea for <em>Roughhouse<\/em> around ten years ago. Why did the story come to you then?<\/strong><\/p>\n<blockquote><p>We used to talk about how dreadful our lives were when we were students, how badly we behaved, and this story came up again and again. It would start out as a funny story, people would laugh, and then I\u2019d start getting really emotional telling it. I felt really bad at the time. I think I\u2019ve always carried around a certain amount of guilt about it. We thought we had reasonable justification to almost dehumanise Martin. That\u2019s under the surface for a lot of people.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019d made a couple of films\u2026 <a href=\"https:\/\/vimeo.com\/32255983\"><em>Feeling My Way<\/em><\/a> is about what\u2019s going on in your head as you\u2019re walking to work, and <a href=\"https:\/\/vimeo.com\/33067778\"><em>Camouflage<\/em><\/a> is about growing up with a schizophrenic parent, and how that affects you. So I was interested in using animation to convey psychological states, and have a kind of interface between an internal and an external narrative. It\u2019s something that animation is very well suited to. <em>Roughhouse<\/em> started out as a documentary, but then I thought telling it like I was in a pub is a nice, honest way of doing it.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><strong>Robert Bradbrook and Yael Shavit are credited as script consultants. How did they get involved?<\/strong><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>I know Robert well. He joined the team at Middlesex [University, where Hodgson leads the BA Animation course], and I saw how incredibly good he was at editing stories. He re-edited the film quite a bit. He\u2019s helped me with a few films in the past. Yael is the partner of Steven Camden, who narrates <em>Roughhouse<\/em>. I knew that she was doing script reading for Film London\u00a0\u2013 she\u2019s a theatre director \u2013\u00a0so I just asked her if she\u2019d look at my script. She was really helpful. Robert was about tightening things up, whereas her input was the emotional side of it. Where she helped a lot is in making it more my own story.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><strong>This is the first film you made in France.<\/strong><\/p>\n<blockquote><p>I\u2019d applied for funding from a few sources in the UK and wasn\u2019t getting anything. And then I was on the jury at Animateka Festival in Ljubljana, and most of the films seemed to have French funding. I thought, \u201cI have to make a connection with a French producer.\u201d Then Theodore Ushev, who\u2019s well connected, said \u201cI know a French producer.\u201d He literally texted someone, who said he was interested. That was Olivier Catherin. I sent him three ideas, and he liked <em>Roughhouse <\/em>the best. Olivier wasn\u2019t able to produce the film himself, but he passed the proposal on to Richard Van Den Boom at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.papy3d.com\/html\/en\/\">Papy3D Productions<\/a>, who became the French co-producers of the film.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><strong>The film is an exquisite evocation of Liverpool as it was then. How did you communicate this atmosphere to your French team?<\/strong><\/p>\n<blockquote><p>I\u2019ve got a lot of photos and drawings from when I was in Liverpool. I actually referenced my earlier film <a href=\"https:\/\/vimeo.com\/33634918\"><em>Nightclub<\/em><\/a>. I didn\u2019t have a problem getting the animation team to understand Liverpool, because I did all the backgrounds. I kind of designed the film: the characters, the clothes they were wearing\u2026 The hardest thing was that I don\u2019t think the team were very used to working with English dialogue. I got the feeling that most French films have very little dialogue. And <em>Roughhouse<\/em> has a lot of slang, with strong regional accents.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Roughhouse (2018) - Excerpt (English)\" width=\"500\" height=\"281\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/1LSi_weqS_A?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p><strong>The accents are almost a part of the narrative. They set up the opposition between the northerner and the Brummies.<\/strong><\/p>\n<blockquote><p>I sometimes had to explain what certain words meant. But some things were gained in translation, too. Richard and his wife Sarah Van Den Boom, who is a director at Papy3D, did the translation, and they found lots of alternatives for the F-word.<\/p>\n<p>But the film is not so much about Liverpool as England in the late 1970s. It\u2019s kind of the way people behaved and moved. I think the body language is very different from a lot of French animation. The animation acting in France tends to be a lot more elegant, stylised in a different way. I wanted something more crude and clumsy, so I showed the animators lots of live action for reference \u00ad\u2013 including Alan Clarke\u2019s <em>Rita, Sue and Bob Too<\/em>, which has some brilliant portrayals of drunk northerners.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><strong>The 2D hand-drawn aesthetic reminded me of your student films, like <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/vimeo.com\/81442972\"><strong><em>Dogs<\/em><\/strong><\/a><strong> and <em>Nightclub<\/em>. But you hadn\u2019t worked in that style for a while\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>Around 20 years ago, everything was going digital and I was very aware of younger directors who\u2019d grown up with computers. I thought I needed to catch up, so I started using digital software, more mixed media with less drawn animation. But I find that the older films get a better response when I show them, especially from younger people. I decided to forget about keeping up with the times and went back to drawing.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><strong>How digital is <em>Roughhouse<\/em>?<\/strong><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>Quite a bit. The backgrounds and initial designs started out on paper. I was working in Photoshop for the colour, using hand-painted textures. It\u2019s an attempt to look as non-digital as possible. I\u2019ve been feeling that I should actually go back to paper, but when you\u2019ve got used to working digitally, it\u2019s almost scary to think about not having all the shortcuts. I\u2019m so used to the \u201cundo\u201d button.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><strong>You\u2019ve said that you don\u2019t think of yourself as an animator.<\/strong><\/p>\n<blockquote><p>I don\u2019t think of myself as a good animator. Not in the way of Richard Williams or Glen Keane, or even a jobbing animator in London. I\u2019m very slow. A film like <em>Feeling My Way<\/em> is mixed media\u00a0\u2013\u00a0certainly not conventional animation.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><strong>Given your eclectic approach, what do you teach your students at Middlesex?<\/strong><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>I do actually teach all the basic stuff, like walk cycles and bouncing balls. But it\u2019s teaching filmmaking\u00a0\u2013\u00a0things like script, editing, design, character development \u2013 that I find most interesting. There are a lot of factors involved in making a good film, and sometimes animation isn\u2019t such an important part of that.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><strong>You\u2019ve gone with a British delegation to teach animators in Cuba. Can you tell me more about that?<\/strong><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>Paul Bush had been working at this film school, EICTV. It was decided that it would be good to form a sort of conference for Cuban animators, and Paul asked me to do workshops and show my work, as well as Barry Purves and [producer] Karina Stanford-Smith. The scene there is quite small and cut off. I think what they wanted was technical advice, mainly, but what they really needed was help in becoming better known outside Cuba. Technically their work is quite strong, and there\u2019s potential for very powerful narratives; but I don\u2019t feel that animation is really supported by the state, and this makes it very hard for independent animators to make personal films. Somehow they\u2019ve got to start making films that get into festivals outside Cuba.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><strong>Do you keep a close eye on the animation scene?<\/strong><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah. The student work now is staggeringly good, and I think it\u2019s a lot harder to stand out in the crowd. When I first started out, the rough-and-ready animation I did, quite sketchy and drawn from observation, stood out. I don\u2019t think it does anymore. You have to work a lot harder on the ideas now, because stylistically, there\u2019s so much beautiful animation.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><strong>Changing subject: I see that your band, Cult Figures, is back on track!<\/strong><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>I don\u2019t know if we\u2019re on track, but we\u2019re back. We formed in 1977 and split in 1980 at about the age of 20. We weren\u2019t going anywhere, and I for one wanted to concentrate on animation at the time.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><strong>You\u2019ve composed the music to a few of your films. Some, like <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/vimeo.com\/259419867\"><strong><em>Train of Thought<\/em><\/strong><\/a> <strong>and <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/vimeo.com\/142022401\"><strong><em>Rug<\/em><\/strong><\/a><strong>, are driven by music. Does it help an animator to be musical?<\/strong><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>It helps me. Working in animation, you focus on timing, frame by frame. You look at time almost under a magnifying glass. The kind of timeline you\u2019re working on is similar to a musical timeline. That\u2019s one of the most exciting sides of animation, where sounds can trigger ideas for images and vice versa. That\u2019s what I like about digital animation: it\u2019s very easy to see the sound as a visual thing on a timeline, and I work with that very closely.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><strong>Finally: what are you working on now?<\/strong><\/p>\n<blockquote><p>I\u2019m thinking about a film about flying. I\u2019m terrible at flying. One of the ways I start trying to deal with it is by drawing and writing about the experience while in the flight. I\u2019m interested in how the graphics are produced for the in-flight safety cards and videos\u00a0\u2013\u00a0how they\u2019re taking any kind of edge out of what could be unsettling. But because the characters are so robotic\u00a0\u2013\u00a0these androids with smiles on their faces\u00a0\u2013 to me that\u2019s part of the scariness.<\/p>\n<p>What interests me in this idea is that I used to love flying when I was a kid. Somehow that changed. I\u2019m not sure how or why. It might just be the gradual experience of life:\u00a0the hard knocks and setbacks all add up.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.skwigly.co.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/01\/Roughhouse-Jonathan-Hodgson-Poster.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter wp-image-34660 size-large\" src=\"https:\/\/www.skwigly.co.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/01\/Roughhouse-Jonathan-Hodgson-Poster-566x800.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"566\" height=\"800\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>For someone who doesn\u2019t consider himself a good animator, Jonathan Hodgson has made remarkably good as one. Raised in Birmingham, he began to show interest in the medium at the same time as Britain\u2019s institutions did. He enrolled on fledgling animation courses at Liverpool Polytechnic and the Royal College of Art, developing a rugged caricatural [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":5032,"featured_media":34658,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[755],"tags":[6080],"class_list":["post-34656","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-interviews","tag-jonathan-hodgson"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v26.6 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Interview: Jonathan Hodgson on his latest film &#039;Roughhouse&#039; - a raw portrayal of bullying - Skwigly Animation Magazine<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"For someone who doesn\u2019t consider himself a good animator, Jonathan Hodgson has made remarkably good as one. 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